I have blogged and said on TV many times: “The NUMBER ONE THING that will kill your big-buck hunting is too much pressure.
How much pressure it too much?
This article from the QDMA references a study where researchers put GPS collars on mature bucks and monitored their movements and habits:
“They found that at 1 hunter per 250 acres, minimal effect could be seen in the way bucks move. However, at 1 hunter per 75 acres bucks responded by choosing thicker cover (and) they traveled less… observation rates/hunter success decreased… and once the season opened, it only took three days for bucks to change their behavior…clearly there is a breaking point where having too many people in the woods affects your ability to view and harvest mature bucks.”
In my experience, and overall, 3 days is about right. However, I’ve hunted many places where, once the guns start booming on opening day, it becomes hard if not impossible to see a shooter after day 2.
Indiana is under a couple of situations that have lowered the deer herd. First, 2 years of dry, hot weather here magnified the blue tongue here that really hit hard statewide. Then, IDNR put in the late doe season with firearms. Understand that that late season is when the deer herd up and the cover is least. Add snow to the picture and the deer are very succeptable to overharvesting. evidence…90,000+ antlerless harvest last year. Bottom line to hunters…we are the keepers of the herd. My suggestion…take what you need for this year and leave the rest to breed for next year. I take inventory each year to decide how many my family needs and when we reach it…killing deer is over for the year. I still go out, but am now scouting for next year. Give it a shot…we hold the future of deer hunting in Indiana in our own hands. God bless you all and good luck
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I think hunters per acre is as important as anything. I don’t like more than 1 hunter/100 acres around here. I prefer 1/200.
Where I hunt in northern Indiana, the terrain is about 80% crop fields. That means, once they are cut, the deer are hiding in small to medium sized woodlots scattered about. I would estimate the density of hunters to be 1/20 wooded acres there. WAY too many hunters crammed into those woodlots. Hunting during shotgun season is out of the question.
The golden age of deer hunting in Indiana is over folks that simple. The DNR has lied for years on the amount of deer harvested each year. Every year you see less and less deer and the state comes out and says at the end of the year new record killed. I would venture to say in Indiana the insurance companies are lining the pockets of the DNR and telling them what to say. At this current rate in ten years any deer killed in Indiana will be considered a trophy
Here in Michigan the harvest results are based on hunter surveys and a few check stations. Also the DNR has a few people sit at a couple spots along the freeway and they count the deer they see on top of cars or in the bed of a truck. That’s it.
As for the slob hunters. We unfortunately have our fair share of them.
And the hunting pressure stats are the same here.
I’d say 3 days is accurate regardless of weapon choice. I see that on quarter sections of our property in Kansas where by day 3 in a row, forget it, deer are absent. Throw in a wandering hunting buddy who doesn’t quite yet get the straight in, straight out concept and control of that inquisitive seek and find desire, by day two its crickets and crows.
We have always referred to it as the “pumpkin patch” when gun season rolls around. Nothing derogatory about it at all. If you wear orange during gun season then you are part of the pumpkin patch. I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out.
I think that the “pumpkin army” definitely puts them into hiding. That’s why I try to find a shooter early season with my bow, and then get the meat doe(s) with the gun. BTW, you want to hear about liberal limits. The amount of does is unlimited here with archery. You can shoot does until you are out of arrows. Then its 10 with muzzleloader and 10 with rifle.
BTW…I’ll buy the coyote portion of why there are fewer deer around, but good luck getting permission on someone’s deer lease to try and kill them. Throw in liberal doe tags and how easy it is to get depredation permits and yeah there are areas with fewer deer. But Indiana’s DNR wants the numbers down and likely won’t change the bonus doe permits available unless/until harvest numbers drop and stay down for a couple of seasons.
One last point…..pressure comes in many forms and while gun shots definitely have a larger effect on deer than bow shots, the number of bow hunters has increased too, along with the explosion in the number of cameras being used (and checked repeatedly). The entrance/exit of bow hunters and camera users in hunting areas has to play a part in the whole “pressure equation” too that is leading to more nocturnal activity.
I am a member of the Pumpkin Army, and so you are Jim. I wasn’t speaking of the PA in a negative sense. I’ve seen this term in magazine articles for years, and I’ve never viewed it as a negative.
I will tell you this, however. I don’t like slob hunters. I skinned deer all day Saturday and it’s amazing how many deer come in with their faces blown off, or their bodies littered with lead slugs from their neck, to their heads, to their backsides. There was one doe that came in and she was shot in the face; her nose was next to unrecognizable. I also cringe when I see a fawn come in just peppered with holes. I found out Saturday that the average fawn yields about 10-12 # of meat. Fill it full of lead and that amount just drops. Not worth it in my opinion. Also, it’s appalling to me how many of these people don’t know how to field dress a deer. Trust me I saw all sorts of internal organs (most of them of the sexual nature), and it ain’t pretty. I think as a whole, all deer hunters should be required to take a class on ethics, and on how to properly field dress a deer. I mean if you’re really not that serious about it, then why even go?
Let me tell you about a hunter I saw in a local store on Friday evening: He was frantically calling around looking for a slug barrel for his shotgun…this was 10 hours prior to legal shooting time on opening day!! And, then those are those that purchase 15-20 packs of the cheapest slugs without even sighting them in…also the night before the opener.
I don’t have a problem with gun hunters;I am one of them. I just wish all hunters would be more ethical in their decision making, and practice with their equipment long before the opener. And, I wish people would quit taking pot shots at running deer. Their are few hunters out there that should attempt a shot at a running deer. Very few.
No one likes slob hunters and no one like hunters who are ill-prepared. But while there are plenty of gun hunters who do the things you talk about, there are plenty of bow hunters who do the same types of things. How many bad shots do you think are taken every bow season? How many deer crawl off and die and are never recovered because of these shots? How many bow hunters can’t properly field dress a deer or waste deer that have spoiled because they don’t know how to cool the deer in the warmer weather of early bow season? You and I both know it’s plenty.
The point is, you may see a problem with “deer hunters” and I don’t necessarily disagree, but it’s not a problem that resides strictly with gun hunters.
Finally, I’m not a member of the “pumpkin army”. I’m a deer hunter who hunts with a bow and gun. So do me a favor, call yourself what you wish, but leave me out of the labeling as it serves no positive purpose IMHO.
Does gun hunting bump the deer around? Of course it does. After opening weekend it’s tougher to kill a big buck. I passed on a 4.5 year old, 130″ 8 pointer on Saturday morning, knowing he was likely going to be the highest scoring buck I’d see all season. Why did I pass? I have as good (or better) deer on the wall.
So not all us are killing every dink that moves.
Maybe people need to look @ things a bit differently. Gun hunters manage the herd and buy a bunch of tags in the process. Without gun hunting, there would be much less revenue and the state’s harvest goals would never be met. People need to understand that Indiana gun hunters killed 45,000 anterless deer last season and have to buy separate antlerless tags to do so (as Indiana’s firearms tags are buck only).
You can make gun season shorter, but do you really think that it’s going to keep the pressure down? Not likely. After opening weekend of a 9 day season or a 5 day season the mature bucks are going to become more nocturnal. It’s their nature.
Most hunters quit hunting gun season after the first weekend when about half of the total gun harvest occurs. During the last 15 days of the season, the vast majority of deer killed are antlerless, and that’s what the state wants done right now.
If people don’t like the rules, try to get the rules changed. I don’t like the fact that the firearms license is buck only. I think many Hoosier hunters who only hunt the firearms opener would pass on young bucks and take a doe if they weren’t required to purchase a separate license to do so. I don’t like the fact that their are so many bonus doe permits available as I know there are many areas that are seeing too many does killed. And I’ve let the DNR know it.
Finally, don’t paint a segment of hunters with such a negative broad brush as comments like the “pumpkin army”. It’s unnecessary and leads to divisiveness among our ranks.
The pressure has been bad here in Indiana, and seems to be getting worse. This past Sat. was our gun opener and there seems to be more orange now than ever. What’s worse, for the deer, is that our Rut had just began to get going real good a few days before the Pumpkin Army came on the scene. The only thing that saved many deer yesterday was the crazy storms we had throughout the Midwest. Also, I want to add here that it seems that our deer are becoming more nocturnal the last few years. With 32 full days of firearms pressure, and now a late antler less season, I don’t see any end to the pressure here.
On top of all this it is clear that our numbers are much lower now than they have been in the last 20 plus years. The liberalized antler less tags have had the impact that the DNR wanted; couple this with an abundance of coyotes now, and we have a herd that is dropping quickly. Nearly everyone I talk to says the same things: There are less deer, and they are harder to hunt now because they don’t come out as readily as they used to. I think this is a direct result of hunting pressure (esp. firearms season(s), and predation by coyotes on fawns in the springtime.