Got this from Sean on Facebook yesterday:
“Just wanted to share a story and some photos with you about a buck I was lucky enough to harvest in the 2009 bow season in Wisconsin. This old guy scored 188 6/8″ non-typical and was aged at 9 years old by the taxidermist. Because this buck was shot with a ‘lighted nock’ it is not eligible to be entered into the Pope and Young book. In the end I could really care less because it is the trophy of my lifetime. But what is your take on that ruling?”—Sean G.
First off, that is a dream buck. Look at the incredible mass. The 3 drops that I so desire, 2 of them off a third beam. Beautiful dark antler coloration. Just awesome man, one of the coolest racks we’ve ever posted on Big Deer, and we’ve posted a bunch of cool racks the last 6 years.
Now to the P&Y rule of fair chase that Sean is talking about: An animal is not eligible for the archery record book if killed “by the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached.”
I told Sean that while I commend the club’s commitment to “ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit of free-ranging wild game animals in a manner which does not give the hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the animal” I do believe this “technology rule” is outdated, vague and arbitrary. Does an illuminated nock really give an honest and skilled hunter like Sean an unfair advantage as he holds it together and makes a lethal shot on a 9-year-old 188” monster of a lifetime? No. And I would argue that a lighted nock is not an electronic, at least not in the common sense of the term.
What if you use GPS to pin and guide you to your tree stands…trail cameras to pattern bucks… a laser rangefinder to range a big deer before you shoot it?
Bowhunters have been discussing and fussing about the P&Y rules for years. This comment from a hunter at an archery forum pretty much sums it up for me:
“This discussion will go on forever. The P&Y rules have become ridiculous and do not flow with how hunting is done nowadays… Is a trail camera a part of it? If I use a flashlight to find the deer does that mean it can’t be put into P&Y? Almost all of the bows out there are set at 70% let off and above… The rules are dumb and I think the folks running it need to get with the times. Maybe more people would like it.”
What do you say?
I have over 50 animals that break the P&Y lowest needed scores to make it into “their” book, 6 animals that though killed with a bow are able to meet B&C requirements. do you know how many I have bothered to pay the entrance fee for to get into either listing? None, zip, nada, zilch, zero…why I know the size of my penis and depth of my manhood I grew out of being insecure about 50 years ago! BD
As for the lighted nock, ” IT HELPS ME FIND MY $30 ARROW, NOT THE DEER”. It is a rare occasion for me to find a nock still with a deer I have shot. Usually a pass through or broken off running away through the trees. As fact as I’m concerned, P&Y & B&C can stick there books, I for sure do not need their recognition for my trophy. I have never even tried to enter one. I’m more of an SCI guy, (not that I would even enter there). My extra 2 cents is that I know many large buck are killed by happen stance and I would be more respectful of a 10yr old that shoots a spike, than some guy that tripped over a 200″ and shot it for a book entry.
Until somebody proves to me that a lighted knock makes it easier to catch up with and kill a trophy buck, I will disagree with the rule. I understand that archery is supposed to be a “primitive” sport, but the ultimate responsibility is to harvest the animal in the quickest, most humane way possible. The lighted knock simply helps you see where you hit the deer, helping you make the decision to follow now, it was a great hit or fall back and wait for a while, the hit is questionable. Accuracy is not increased and the arrow flies no faster or straighter. By the way…great buck no matter what the books think!
I agree with the sentiments posted, but if your goal is to put a deer in the P&Y books, then you gotta play by their rules. They have a right to set their rules and hunters have the option to abide (or not) by them.
Now, if P&Y refuse to adapt to the times, within the framework of what most would consider fair chase, they will slowly begin to lose relevance. Indeed they already have. New scoring methods and record keeping clubs such as SCI and Buckmasters have become increasingly popular over the last decade, and will continue to be if P&Y doesn’t adapt.
Honestly, I have seen a positive impact from that. More and more hunters are ignoring what P&Y and B&C have to say about their trophy, and are appreciating mature bucks for the animal that they are. It’s nice to have an objective measuring system, but I am happy to see some of the importance of the “number” or a “book deer” fading away.
When you launch a knock lit arrow it races at 300 fps and automatically locates the biggest antlered buck in the nearest 1000 yards. Then, if it locates one it enters the deer exactly 1.576 inches behind the shoulder blade, and 3.0″ from the breast bone. If the lighted knock finds no deer meeting the minimum requirements, it returns to the archer and softly looses flight at the bottom of the tree stand without touching the blade to the ground where it would be dulled by any impact. Give me a break P&Y
Yikes! I was not aware of the extent in which they enforced these rules. The trail-cam thing is an interesting point and one P&Y should address. How about tools like Ozonics? I’ve never used one, but it seems that would disqualify you as well.
As for this particular example, and Don’s above, it’s shocking to the point of ridiculous that they were disqualified.
Ozonics, good one I hadn’t thought about, but it would disqualify to letter of the rule
Saw this and had to comment, last year I shot a 188 7/8 typical net 182 and was blown away by this same ruling. Like mike didn’t really matter about getting it in the books how in the world does a lighted nock help anyone harvest a trophy buck. I used the nock so the cameras can see the arrow fly. Definitely need to change that ruling
Thanks for checking in Don appreciate it–I know you to be one of the best big buck hunters in Iowa!
I understand their reasoning for having rules, but they are outdated and should be amended to represent the modern hunter. When I read this I was wondering the same thing about trail cameras. There aren’t too many hunters out there that don’t use trail cameras. Where do they draw the line? I think that if the hunter is abiding by the law of the area they are hunting, then they should qualify for any record book that they meet the minimum score. Monster of a buck.
If it is net 188 6/8″ then it qualifies for Boone and Crockett.
(I think min is 185″NT) Forget about P&Y and go with B&C if you want it in a book.